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October 9, 2006

Underground Poker Poll

by Otis

I played in a $170 live underground event in G-Vegas yesterday and finished a disappointing 13th out of 51. It was an afternoon of poker not to be remembered. However, as I looked around the room at the wide variety of players from all different walks of life, I realized that the poker community in my neck of the woods is pretty active. In fact, just before the tournament started, the organizer took the time to recognize three people in the room who had done very well in recent major events, including one guy who had just won about $100,000 in a WSOP circuit event.

While I folded my way to a non-cash, I couldn't help but wonder if the rest of the U.S. is like this. I know the bigger cities have thriving communities--Dallas and New York are two that come to mind. However, I don't hear much about the medium-sized cities and if their poker community is as vibrant.

For instance, I don't make the rounds like most people around here. My head is not in the game and if I want to stay married, I need to stay home a lot more (the two not being mutually exclusive, by the way). However, if my wife were to run off with Derek Jeter and I didn't up and moving to some place where poker is legal, I could play just about every night of the week if I wanted to. There are at least five card room operators within driving distance. There are more games popping up every day. There are two or three tournaments a week in which you can spend as little as $30 and as much as $700 for a single event. And if all else fails, there are more home games than you'll ever want.

There was a time a few years ago in which home games were about our only choice. We played for small stakes and treated it as a social event, like going out to play golf or pick up women. Now, those of us who have been playing together for a while have gotten to the point to which it is undoubtedly -EV to be hosting or visiting each other's home games. We don't dial down the stakes and, recently, it's not been uncommon to see players win and lose six buy-ins in one night of poker. While I still enjoy the company, it's wild to play against people you know so well.

***

(The following section is really Inside G-Vegas Baseball and isn't really important to the discussion here. Read it if you want, but otherwise move on to the end)

For instance, I hadn't planned on playing Friday night, but it was G-Rob's birthday and The Mark put together a game that was half social and half bloodbath. And speaking of Blood, the guy ran over all of us. In one memorable hand, Blood came in for a raise from the cutoff. G-Rob called in the small blind and I called in the big blind with a weak jack. The flop game jack high with two clubs. I made a decision to win the pot before another card came, but I knew it wouldn't be as easy as just betting out. G-Rob was on tilt and calling all bets. Blood had killed off half the game and was sitting behind the amount of money that I spent on my laptop and big TV combined. G-Rob checked, I checked, and Blood bet out. I read the bet as a desire to win the pot right there. Blood didn't want action. G-Rob called. That night, calling was not uncommon for him and I figured him for clubs. My problem was, I was weak. I had top pair no kicker. I put in a fairly substantial raise. In retrospect, it committed me and I failed to realize it. Before I had time to think about it, Blood had re-raised enough to put me all in. G-Rob folded. Doing the math later, I think I had to call. Nonetheless, after a lot of thought, I re-evaluated the hand, put Blood on an overpair, and mucked.

Blood said a few minuted later that he had pocket tens. That is, I had him beat. "I put you on putting me on missing the flop, so I represented the overpair," he said.

Now, given, we are no poker geniuses and this is the kind of play that takes place everywhere in America. Still, Blood put a Level 3 move on me that he would only put on me and a couple of other people. He knew how I had read him and he twisted my mind to believe what he wanted me to believe. Looking back, I think he was getting me back for making him lay down an overpair two nights earlier when I had ace-high. Regardless, when you're consistently playing with people who know you well enough to know what you're thinking most of the time, it's just not a recipe for making money. It's stimulating and it makes you a better player, but it doesn't make you a lot of money. Unless you're Blood, who is currently enjoying the heater we all pass around (I want it back).

With that kind of thing in mind, we're all sort of re-evaluating whether we want to keep playing with each other. One of us has explicitly said he won't do it ever again. Me, I'm torn. I know I can win more money in the underground games, but I also play to be able to see my buddies.

***

But, the reason I started this post in the first place was to ask...what is your city like? Do you have a vibrant underground scene full of characters, criminals, and geniuses? Because we in G-Vegas do.

So...what say you?

| B&M Poker
Comments

Here, in Minneapolis, there is no 'scene'. Not one at all.

Makes me sad.

Posted by: chad at October 9, 2006 1:13 PM

Funny you should ask this today -- I just wrote a long post longingly remembering the old NYC poker scene and how the current gambling bill BS has reminded me of its slow demise... there are still underground clubs, but I haven't been to one in a year.

Posted by: Toby at October 9, 2006 1:22 PM

Part of me hates the fact that we've managed to grow past social poker. I saw Teddy Ballgame on Thursday night and we spoke about the limit donk game I used to play in for the past THREE years.

I told him I couldn't do it anymore because I only had 2 nights a week to play and the other games were too profitable. It sounds horrible when I say it and I cringe when I write it. "Only" "Profitable"

What fun is exercising table selection when you have to avoid your friends?

Posted by: BadBlood at October 9, 2006 1:38 PM

Columbia, SC is a deadzone for poker. There is the occasional USC dorm room game and an occasional home game, but that is it.

Then again, my wife thinks I just pissed off people and don't get invited to anymore games.

-R

Posted by: Ronsrants at October 9, 2006 2:35 PM

Lafayette has a pretty vibrant underground scene, from what I know. There were lots of bar room games at one point until the cops decided to crack down. That just forced more people underground.

I haven't gotten into that scene, and maybe it's because legal poker is only an hour's drive away and I can be pretty successful at that.

While at the Coushatta this weekend, I talked with a couple of Houston players about a thriving Houston underground scene. It's the same scene in which my boy Dmitri Nobles was a dealer before his cash in the WSOP.

Posted by: CJ at October 9, 2006 2:54 PM

The two Mexican guys obviously worked for the host in their day jobs, and they were the diamonds in our rough. The old guy in the 5 seat would straddle from any position, and call any preflop raise, but if he led out post-flop, you were in trouble. The dealer took tips, but she made way more raking pots, overbetting her AQs and catching, then jamming her big pairs down my throat all night.

I've only hit one of the local underground games a couple of times, but it's pretty good, and I'm starting to hear about a couple of others, so I'd say that Charlotte has a scene, I just don't know too much about it.

Posted by: Falstaff at October 9, 2006 3:11 PM

No need in St. Louis. Three legal card rooms with 2 more on the way means that the underground only really exists for social games.

Posted by: Chilly at October 9, 2006 4:15 PM

I concur with Chad.

But the bar poker scene if still hopping. I have yet to see a tourney not have the full amount of people playing.

Whether or not these people have regular cash home games is beyond me.

But, my lack of transportation to such games keeps me from finding out.

Posted by: Drizztdj at October 10, 2006 7:19 AM

Dallas is popping. There are several rooms that Clonie will show up at every now and again as well as other area pros. The competition ranges from frat boy wanna-bes up to every-night players. It's pretty action filled. I get three to four emails weekly and I am not even a room player.

MG

Posted by: MrGoss at October 10, 2006 11:04 AM

We have quite the happening scene here in Ohio. Should any of you ever make it up this way, look me up. I'll point you to the barrel of fish.

-Matt

Posted by: WiredPaint at October 10, 2006 12:18 PM

There is always action near you, search craigslist for your area with keyword poker. A few ads pop up, but so will local tournaments and groups looking for players. Can even advertise your own games this way.

Posted by: proto at October 10, 2006 12:21 PM

Manila, Philippines is great. There are casinos, but the levels they play there are pretty small in dollar terms.

There are a number of underground clubs that are very, very, very ripe. Have to learn to play Manila, which is like Omaha, but you bet every community card and a flush beats a full house (that took a while to get used to, and they didn't tell me initially), otherwise they are juicy games with alot of rich Philippinos, Chinese, and Japanese players lacking in skill. NLH is also very juicy.

Much better than my old home of Minneapolis, and my 6 year poker purgatory in India.

Posted by: jxma at October 10, 2006 2:15 PM

Most of the games in the city have dried up, but there are a few good places to play. Also, there is a nice private games that take place that I can't talk about or else I will end up in the E. River for talking about it. Rule number one about the game is that there is no game. Rule number two is that there is no game. Rule number three is rule number one and two. There are a lot of good games left in the city.

Posted by: joaquin ochoa at October 10, 2006 3:44 PM

Sioux Falls, SD is pretty small. Imagine that. You can play the maniacs in the bar for free every night of the week. The pay outs are pretty good, they are leagues last about 2-3 months and pay out $5,000-10,000 in prizes. Granted you have to play about 3-4 times a week.

Usually once a week you can play at somebodies house for about $10. The structures are horrible. Nobody knows how to run a tourney around here.

Posted by: WayneBullet at October 14, 2006 11:02 AM

First off I'm not much of a blog poster, but i enjoy reading yours very much so.
I reside in Thunder Bay, Canada. My casino offers a terrible poker room and its hard to find regular home games because I go once and mostly roll em then never get another invite because they are all friends and don't like loosing to outsiders. Thanks for the good reads!

Posted by: Pmack at April 16, 2008 9:56 AM
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