April 1, 2008
I Return To The Felt...And Fight With Friends
by G-Rob
Hello dear blogging world! I've missed you terribly. You know, according to this blogging widget we're using here I haven't posted since the middle of February. Kinda pathetic methinks.
I've made a commitment to change that from here on out. We'll see how that holds.
So how does a one-time frequent blogger return to the page? By fighting with his good friends of course!
So I'm in a pot with BadBlood and Gucci Rick. I've had a decent night and I've made a little. One orbit earlier I'd announced I'd be leaving on my next buttton and this was to be the second to last hand.
I'm dealt 6d6s and because I've built my stack through (mostly) aggressive play I open it UTG for $12.
Badblood calls in Middle Position. Gucci Rick calls from the Small Blind.
The flop is Kc 6h 3c. For the slower reader, I have a set.
Gucci Rick checks so I lead out for $40. BadBlood smooth calls and then, oddly, GucciRick check-raises to $140.
Without much hesitation, I push for another $500.
Badblood says "FOLD" and everyone at the table hears him do it.
Then GucciRick says, "I almost folded to the $40!"
The dealer, Rick is in the 1s, hears him say that and misunderstands. He mucks Rick's hand.
I SEE Rick's hand get mucked and also thought I heard Rick fold so I then allow MY hand to get mucked as well.
Now we have a problem. Rick protests. BadBlood makes the initial argument that because he's the only one who still has cards, he is entitled to some of the pot. Rick says I can't win because, while his cards were accidentally mucked....MINE WERE TOO.
I have to have cards to win the pot.
I didn't argue much because these are my friends, but I strongly believe I'm entitled to this entire pot.
We ended up chopping it between me and Rick.
Here's a 2+2 Thread BadBlood posted about it. I'd be interested in your responses.
As I said at the game last night, again privately to you later, and here publicly now...
The dealer made an honest mistake. It was after 2 and we were all tired.
The Gooch made a mistake in sitting in the 1 seat and not protecting his cards and letting them get mucked.
You made a mistake in not protecting your hand. As you're aware, players trade the winning hand for chips. If you don't have anything to trade, it's a lot harder to make your claim for the pot.
So, let's look to who had a claim.
1) Blood--No way. Despite the fact he was the only one with cards at the table, the neighbors, the dogs, and my sleeping kid at home heard Blood fold verbally. As you said at the time, he could shoot an angle and claim to not have folded, but nobody is buying that.
2) Rick--His only claim is that you don't have cards. It's a pretty good argument.
3) You--You made the last aggressive action and you were the last player with cards.
Obviously, you have the best argument for the pot. In a casino, I think you have a 75% chance at being awarded the pot after the floor is called and cameras are checked. At a game among friends where the dealer (working only for tips, by the way) made an honest mistake that was exacerbated by the players' failure to protect their cards, the two-way chop was the only thing to do.
I think Otis' sleeping kid at home should have gotten the pot.
Obviously a strange situation. I agree that the floor likely would have declared the pot for G-Rob. Blood was out of the hand because his impossible-to-misunderstand declaration. And since Rick's cards were mucked first, that likely left G-Rob to scoop the pot.
The big question remains: How many of our readers believe G-Rob actually flopped a set there? I haven't played with him in a while, but I have a feeling G-Rob checks his set there with plans to raise Blood since Blood is likely, in my estimation, to try and steal the pot with a bet whether he has the goods or not.
aren't you all good friends? If you asked Gucci Rick if he was really going to call, would he give you an honest answer? Also, would the players involved be honest about what they were holding?
Among friends, if you have to lie or angle shoot to try to win a small amount of money from your friends, that is pathetic.
To be clear, my initial assertion that I deserved some of the pot was quickly withdrawn based on being half-kidding and fully realizing I had no rights to it. It was just funny to me that I still was the only one with cards at the end of the hand. Also, at the time, I wasn't convinced I didn't have the winner until the discussion ensued.
If, however, the remaining players offered me some of the pot as consolation, I probably wouldn't have refused.
I had pocket tens, for the record and did not put G-Rob on a set. The board had 2 clubs, so it wasn't a horrible push, nor was it ripe for a check-raise.
Do I believe G-Rob had a set of sixes? If he's going to lie about this hand for whatever reason, then so be it. I choose to believe him in this case.
What the Muck! (Ah, April 1st.) G-Rob lives.
We are all good friends. That's why it was resolved pretty easily. And Badblood made no effort to lie about folding.
The question here is presented not as some actual "FIGHT WITH FRIENDS" but more as an opportunity do discuss a rule in the abstract.
They both should have let you have the pot. Anyone looking to gain a pot they do not deserve should be barred from home games.
This guy's verbal folds no longer have meaning, so he should not allowed to be played poker.
Often in outlaw games, pots are split to avoid the smell of gun powder. I often split pots as the best house man decision, but this is not such a situation.
Thanks Johnny Hughes, you're right. I'm giving up the game.
