August 11, 2005
A Lesson in Patience
by Luckbox
The "Doublewide Game" has been retired. Now, it's the "Pool Table Classic." Each week, anywhere from 8 to 16 people gather around the pool table for some Texas Hold 'Em action. What it lacks in comfort, it makes up for in green felt, not to mention cup holders.
Last night, 12 people showed up, and, reluctantly, we decided to play one table. I didn't mind so much. Patience is my game and with the blinds taking longer to come around, I could pick my hands and pounce.
About four hours later, we had finished two games and I had seen two hands. That's right. I played two hands.
"Old Man" Chris is the game's surly host. If he's not bitching about something, he's looking for his beer. He's a nice guy, but he'll let you know when something is bothering him. One night, it's the fact that the blinds moved from 200/400 to 300/600 instead of doubling to 400/800. God forbid we play a little poker before moving to the slot machines.
"Bad" Chad is the old man's son and another regular. He's got slow-playing down to an art. And by slow-playing, I mean I could call "Clock" on him every hand if it came down to it.
"Steeley Dan" is a co-worker who introduced me to the game. In fact, he's introduced me to a number of games, and hundreds of dollars in profits later, perhaps I should figure out a way to thank him. This isn't the softest he's ever brought me to, but it's close.
First game, I'm in the BB in the first hand with "Steeley Dan"' to my right in the SB. Blinds are at 25/50 and we start with 1200T. Four people call before "Steeley Dan" completes the bet. I decide to check without looking. I do it on occasion and announce I won't look until someone bets. Other times, I raise on principal just to punish the limpers. Perhaps I should have don the latter in this case.
The flop comes donw Ah-Qc-Tc. "Steeley Dan" bets the pot, 300T.
"Ah... you're gonna make me look. Watch out!" I say, before peeking down at Kd-Jc. That's right, the nut straight. I pushed all-in.
Frankly, I was trying to tell him to lay it down. I was trying to tell him he couldn't have a better hand. He obviously thought I was trying to put a move on him, and he called. He flipped Ad-Th.
"Looks like you guys will have an all-time dealer," I said with a smile.
I was an 81% favorite at that point. He had four outs. I'm not a fan of bad beat stories, so I'll keep it short. The Ac fillled him up on the turn and my miracle Kc missed the river. I was out.
Guess who became all-time dealer.
Mercifully, that game moved along exceptionally fast, finishing in just over two hours. We lost our first 6 players at an average of one every 6 minutes.
The second game started with just 11 players and I found "Bad" Chad to my right. He was UTG the first hand and he threw out a raise to 200T. I peek down at my cards and see AQs. Here's the thing about "Bad" Chad's play, he either limps or min-raises with monsters. He craves action and wants callers when he's got a big hand. I knew he didn't have a big hand.
I raise to 500T. He moves around the table with about half of them faking an all-in move, joking about me going out fast again. When it got back to "Bad" Chad, I considered immediately calling "Clock!" but I didn't. He went through his typical ritual of stacking his chips and counting and stacking his chips and counting before moving all in with authority. Paging Mike Caro!
I knew I had him beat, but by how much? I suppose he could have had a little pair and that would actually put me behind, but I didn't believe that's what he was holding. I really thought he might be on Ax and that would make me about a 3-to-1 favorite.
So why would he push all-in, I asked myself. Easy, he figured there's no way I'd call. He figured there's no way I'd risk going out the first hand in the second straight game.
And I suppose, if I were smart, I should have laid it down. After all, I could beat these guys if I played my game. I would be down to just 700T, but I've come back from worse. No mater what he's holding, he's got outs, and that puts my tournament at risk.
That last paragraph didn't go through my head before I called him. He flipped over KTo making me a 2-to-1 favorite. The T on the flop put me way behind and I never improved. I was out... on the first hand... again. I didn't volunteer to deal.
Thankfully, the second game moved about as fast as the first, and we managed to squeeze in a third game with 8 players.
I folded the first hand and went on to win it. That gave me a $30 profit for the night. I suppose I would have been in great shape to win either of the first two games, had my better hand held up, but that's poker. I want those guys making those plays against me every time, right?
Or was I stupid to risk all my chips on the first hand of a tournament?
No.
You're playing to win, not playing to last. Only in the rarest of situations will your opponent not have outs, so any time you go all-in, you can go broke. Whether it happens immediately or on the bubble, it don't matter to you.
If both cases, if you had managed to double up early with your superior hand, you would have had a markedly better chance to WIN the tourney, and to hell with placing.
And like you said, you're there for the long haul, not these three tourneys. You want these boys calling you all year.
keep a friend nearby so he can punch you if you decide not to go all-in with what you know is the best hand.
It's not like you thought the guy had an open ended straight draw plus a flush draw.
Yes? No? Maybe so?
What was the payout structure? Imperfect has a point that you're playing to win, but define win. Placing in third could be winning. Howard Lederer says play for third in this size tourny assuming that third pays. In most payout structures, third pays about 20% to each player, which means 60% is paid out at the point that you are down to 3. Aim for 3rd. Then worry about 1st and 2nd.
Good point, TSS, but the payout structure means playing for first. In the first game, payouts were $90, $20, $10. In the second game, payouts were $80, $20, $10. In the final game, payouts were $60, $20.
Your read was good, the odds were there, and who cares which hand you go out on?
I'll take 65-35 favorites all day long for all my chips.
Even if he flips up a smaller pocket pair, you've still got clear odds to call.
This is why it's called gambling. Bah!
We have the same situation in our game every time we play. With your read, I think you were right.
Personally, I'm learning not to overvalue AQ early in a tournament for the reason you gave - you're still in the game. With anything less than QQ in a home game, I play weak and evaluate my options after the flop. My game is nearly as soft as yours sounds, so some idiot always calls with garbage and has 2 live cards that can beat me. I don't ramp up the aggression until we're shorthanded. If your guys are anything like my guys, they'll start playing defensive around the money and then they can be punished.
BSN
Right plays both times. Without question. Feel good that you made the correct plays.
I'll be telling you the same thing after I bust you at Bradoween with a monster 1-outer suckout.
By gambling early you give the less skilled opposition an edge. Yes you have the math edge, but you gave away your skill edge. You crush this game. What if the field just decided to push everytime the had 2 paint and you're in a pot?
Look at it this way. It was early. You were at a 2-1 advantage , AQ vs KT, on the first hand. You thought maybe 3-1. Are you more than twice the player as this guy? In a SNG or MTT with a good structure I'd wait for a better place to get my money in.
Now, if I'm ever at a table with a bunch of pros I'll sell off my left nad for a race.
Yeah, that was my thinking. On the first game, I didn't mind my move at all. In the second game, I think it was a bad move because I know my skill is superior to theirs (am I being a little arrogant?). I generally build my stack gradually, avoiding huge confrontations with cards to come until I have a big enough stack to push them around.
Whenever I have lost to the STL boys I have usually gotten a large portion (or all) of my stack committed early in the game and early in the hand. I am very seldom behind but in a game that I cash 75%-80% of the time why would I risk a 2-1, or even a 3-1 position? This is essentially giving them an edge, in an abstract sort of way. Its the right call in the short vision of the hand, but wrong in the overall vision of you versus this particular group.
As a side note, this is how I feel about 5+1 and 10+1 SNGs on Party. I have folded very good hands early knowing that giving a fish that has me covered the opprotunity to suck out is a bad play. I live by "You can't win early, but you can lose."
Revision:
In the first situation, you were 100% right to do it. You had the nut straight and the best he could have had was a club flush draw, which he'd even still only make about 35% of the time. His 2pair is exactly what you were hoping he'd have, reducing his chance of beating you down to around 15%. You couldn't beg for a better time to get your money in.
In the second situation, it's maybe a little early in the tournament to get all your money in preflop.
Money in... best of it...
If you don't do it everytime you have an edge, the opponent wins.
That or you're being a wuss.
