September 20, 2007
Greenville Poker Bust : The Scoop (Updated)
by G-Rob
One of my big fears here is having to report on the people I know. When we cover some particularly greusome accident I always check to see if the victim was a friend, that sorta thing. So it was with great distress that I read about a big poker bust.
In fact, thanks to the arrest report, I now know a lot more about people I met years ago.
Anyway, from conversations with police and various other reports, here's what we know....
THE OFFICIAL REPORT
A police report is a public document. I'm surprise more people don't take advantage of that fact. Here is an abridged summary :
Undercover police got an ANONYMOUS TIP that there were poker games inside this location on Tuedays and Saturdays. 5 deupities with the Greenville County Sheriff's office then staked the game out.
They observed about 20 cars in the parking lot of a fireworks warehouse after hours.
They moved 2 unmarked cruisers into the parking lot where the game was played and waited until another player tried to get in by using the buzzer on the front door. 2 of the deputies then walked up next to the man being buzzed in and acted as if they were with him. A "White Female" opened the door and let all 3 men in.
The deputies could see from the door that there was a poker game inside thus giving them probable cause to continue in where they saw two tables of Texas Hold-em.
The other deputies came in and stopped the game. The confiscated about $4,000, 33 packs of COPAG cards, a case of chips, and a laptop computer. Everyone there agreed to forfeit ALL OF THE CASH ON THEM and sign a waiver giving up those funds in exchange for a light fine and release.
In addition to the game's operator, it looks like 13 people were charged.
MORE
Evidently the deputies there that night spoke in a way that indicated that they had full knowledge of the location of at least 2 other active G-Vegas Underground games. In other words, they knew the address. Please remember there has never been a specific reference to any game's location or any player's real name on this blog or on Blood's.
Further, there is some reason to believe that these same officers intend to shut down those games.
It is NOT clear at this point whether or not those operators plan to take heed of this OBVIOUS warning.
FINALLY
Blood makes the very reasonable assumption that the recent robbery at the Black Stallion game and this bust (with potential to be bustS plural) are related. His theory is that the law knew these games went on but tolerated them UNTIL the threat of deadly violence emerged.
I wonder how, or IF, that relates to the "ANONYMOUS TIP" that police say led them to the game this week.
I would note that games like this have always been especially vulnerable to anyone who has lost badly and want to act in spite or just simply be a dick. Hell, it could have been the wife of a too-frequent player.
I wonder.
I will say this. I won't be at any underground game anytime soon. As Otis said yesterday, its a matter of EV.
As the odds of having every dollar on your person seized (with an ADDITIONAL fine) increase the EV of playing in a particular location declines SHARPLY.
Update from Otis: For posterity...
Without using the names here, here's a look at the age ranges of the people who were ticketed in this case:
Male-35
Male-35
Male-26
Male-64
Female-71
Male-60
Male-56
Male-24
Male-24
Male-27
Male-30
Male-59
Male-70
Male-26
"Everyone there agreed to forfeit ALL OF THE CASH ON THEM and sign a waiver giving up those funds in exchange for a light fine and release."
extortion: " the crime of obtaining money or some other thing of value by the abuse of one's office or authority."
any info on whether there were any additional charges for an alleged "operator" and are people going to challenge these charges ?
They won't be challening the case.
And, no, the operator won't face any additional charges largely because he was cooperative in handing over all the funds in question.
After the "much more on this later" comment, I have to say I'm glad you weren't there!
I can't imagine how dissapointing it must be that you knew everyone there, but it still could have been much worse.
As an avid G-Vegas reader only, (read: not a gossip monger) I have to wonder about the slow-rolling SOB, as a possible "ANONYMOUS TIP" as it were.
These things are hard to piece together, but there might be a way if everyone works together to put the pieces in the right places. I wish you all good luck in determining the sourse. I know I'd be relentless in my investigation on a rat.
Again, I'm glad none of the upfor regulars were involved, including Blood.
Take care.
There is a precise way one should act when being arrested for gambling. Unruffled. Slightly amused. Superior. Cool.
I have been arrested for gambling, mostly poker, in Texas several time years ago. There were no guns drawn, handcuffs, or bad feeling with the laws. We would laugh and joke. We'd go downtown to the jail for finger prints, photos, and the property deposit where we stuck our cash in envelopes after it was counted. They did not confiscate money. We played with all paper money, no chips, because of the laws and the hijackers. I was arrested with a bunch of big-time road gamblers once. They got out all these old arrest photos and everyone was laughing very hard. Odessa Red had $44,000 on him, like $440,000 now. He had to count it for the laws.
I was arrested once working the craps by the Texas Rangers a.k.a. the Big Hats, a great resume line. You had to have a lookout or they kicked in the door. They were very nice and stayed for a beer. They took everyone's names and the house man went down the next day to pay everyone's fines.
The snitch could be a wife, sore loser, or loose lips in a bar. We always suspected the bail bondsmen and/or lawyer.
If you play where poker is illegal, expect to be arrested. It is just part of the business and doesn't mean much. It sure isn't anything to feel to bad about.
I have laid up a few nights in jail for other reasons, drunk mostly. I have fun harassing the guards, "Hey, I'll be in jail one night. You are in jail every night." I make pals with the largest guy.
The laws act just terrible these days. I have heard of a raid in Texas where they came in full SWAT team gear. Six Whackos Armed to the Teeth.
I don't understand the anonymous tip thing. If it was a crack house or something like that it would be different, but I guess people have their reasons. I always thought the cops found out about this stuff through some sort of task force. Guess I've been watching too much "Law and Order."
Whew.
Is poker illegal in SC to be played for money or is it the raked aspect of the those underground games that makes it illegal?
pretty sure any gambling (not state sponsored of course) is illegal in SC based on some old obscure law from the 1800's (as are most games that involve dice or playing cards, like go fish and monopoly). also internet gambling is expressly illegal here too as i understand it
So far everything I've read on this and Badbloods's blogs is correct. I was of course the dealer who was wearing the cuffs. I intend to write on the incident in detail on my blog but just haven't felt like it. I've told the story too many times already. An important note is that this was a very small deal, a ticket and the end of the game. Of course for me, this was my main source of income. Anyone need a dealer?
The only conflict in the info is the "ANONYMOUS TIP". A cop did tell Rhodes during the bust that they had a tip. But after everyone was gone, the cops told the operator of the game that the tip thing is just something they say and that there was no tip. They said that each of them patrols the area 6 nights a week and that they became curious about a crouded fireworks store late at night with blacked-out windows.
The truth about the tip? Who knows.
I know how you feel G-Rob as a Radio Jock myself you have to "limit your company's exposure to any illegal activities".
But I wish sometimes we could live and do what we want like everyone else, but we are held to a higher standard than anyone else.
I agree on what thetrooper said. Sometimes "Tips" are just a way of having an officer let his gut talk.
Safe playing and all the best.
InstantTragedy
G-Rob,
The idea that a wife would get her husband arrested to stop him from playing poker is absolutely preposterous. We women would rather you piss your money away than have to come bail your asses out of jail or waste our family's income paying fines or attorney's fees. Seriously. We come up with much more creative (and less damaging to ourselves and our children) ways to get you guys to do what we want.
I told Otis a long time ago that that game was going to get busted because of where it was. It's at a fucking fireworks warehouse!!! What did you guys think? Those cops driving by every night were gonna go, "Hey, it must be a meeting of Bottle Rockets Anonymous (BRA)!"
Or..."Boy, those fireworks people sure do work hard for their money!"
Or..."Fireworks must be good business! Look at all those $40,000+ cars in the parking lot!"
Also, the other games are all in neighborhoods where there is a lot of questionable activity going on all the time. The cops are around there every day trying to bust drug dealers, wife beaters, and illegal immigrants. Again, the expensive cars in neighborhoods like those are pretty freaking obvious. Usually, wealthy people (or wealthier) are in neighborhoods like that for money, sex, or drugs.
Finally, because of the cars, they probably know who you all are. If they've been cruising by the fireworks warehouse, it wouldn't be all that hard to run your license plates. It's probably been done. I passed by there one night there was a game going on and there was a cop parked in the turn lane just outside the property. That's probably what he was doing. Hell, I'm sure they know you're playing. Hopefully they like you.
So according to Mrs. Otis, the cops went in to undo a BRA! Ok, I couldn't resist.
Curious as to how they could confiscate the money on each individual person. If the cash wasn't on the table or in the "cage", how can they take the money from someone's pocket?
There is no legal gambling in SC. A special provision is made for the state lottery.
The law is simple and woefully outdated.
I agree with Mrs. Otis. Bunches of nice cars around a warehouse late at night naturally attracts police scrutiny. It's no big leap for someone patrolling the area to figure out what's going on.
Probably took all the money they had on them because they figured they intended to put it into play, so it was fair game.
